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Mon, Apr 2, 2007 14:00 EDT
The Future of FoxPro
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Posted by: Chad Z. Hower in Soapbox Topic: DevelopmentBlog: Weigh In
Current Rating: |
In mid-March, Microsoft announced the official end of the line for FoxPro. I'm not a FoxPro developer, but in my career, I've been in the exact same position that FoxPro developers now are in, with other products and other vendors. I vividly remember what it was like to be in that position and I understand many FoxPro devotees are understandably upset. But logically, not only did the end of life for FoxPro make sense, but everyone, including the FoxPro followers knew that this was coming, regardless of what Microsoft did or did not say.
When I mentioned this fact to some colleagues, the near-universal response was "What?! You mean FoxPro was still around?" Searching for more news recently, I found a popular article written in late 2004 which stated exactly the same sentiments, and that was two-and-a-half years ago! In addition, many FoxPro to .NET conversion consultancies have been around for several years. Quite bluntly, the FoxPro developers who were surprised by this announcement have had their heads in the sand.
Microsoft has not only been moving away from native development (C++ aside) and focusing on managed code, but centralizing all development tools around Visual Studio. Gone are the days of maintaining and supporting dozens of separate specialized development environments.
To bring FoxPro into this fold would require FoxPro to be brought to .NET properly and for it to become part of Visual Studio. Either step would have drastically changed FoxPro in ways that would make the VB to VB.NET change look small in comparison. The end result may have shared a name with FoxPro, but it certainly would not be a FoxPro the FoxPro developers would recognize, and it certainly would not run existing FoxPro applications without massive changes.
While FoxPro certainly has some unique features, most of them are now or soon available in .NET. Projects like LINQ continue to reduce the unique advantages of FoxPro, and taken in conjunction with the advantages of .NET, a move to .NET is the natural evolution.
Since Microsoft has updated FoxPro to interoperate with .NET using Sedna, FoxPro developers do not need to port their applications cold turkey, but can begin to mix their FoxPro code with .NET code and slowly move over existing systems. Microsoft has also announced extended support through 2015 and even a coming service pack for FoxPro. This gives
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Comments
Sat, Sep 1, 2007 2:34 EDT
This is how I see it: I have been developing web databases with Visual FoxPro for over 10 years, and when PHP or .NET programmers occasionally want to show me how much better their stuff is, they are always SHOCKED when they realize how much WORSE it is.
They typically need 3 to 10 times the code, sometimes over 20 times the code, to get business applications done. By the time they have instantiated their objects, I am finished with the business logic and application.
Furthermore, FoxPRO's built-in database is highly optimized and runs typically 5-10 times faster than SQLServer or MySQL in Web applications, no result sets need to be communicated, no SQL strings need to be parsed.
This is the ONLY problem I see: Although Visual FoxPRO is the most bugfree programming language around, it does not make Microsoft much money. It does NOT require SQL Server License fees, third-party components, additional language components, and typically much smaller developer teams.
FoxPRO was always the renegade product in the company, it's almost as if Microsoft was ALSO giving away MySQL to any potential SQLServer customer. "OBVIOUSLY that had to end".
BUT the XBASE community will not die because of the End-Of-Life notice, quite to the contrary. In the past FOXPRO was always the most powerful and best product in the XBASE community, and it was not profitable for anyone's XBASE to compete against Microsoft's product. With Microsoft leaving the competition, the XBASE competition will THRIVE, and companies like dBASE Inc, Recital, FlagShip, Harbor Project etc. will see a whole new reason for existence: hundreds of thousands of programmers coming.
The 25-year old dBASEII advertising "Boy Is This Costing You!" (referring to inefficient BASIC programming) is more true than ever before: XBASE code is perfect for web databases, because it deals directly with data instead of all these .NET and PHP memory variables, objects, procedure calls, etc. etc.
FoxPRO may see the End Of Life in another 10 years or so, but XBASE will continue to grow. I should probably do some actual code demonstrations that show how much better it works and plan to do so.
You do not have flash or javascript support.
Tue, Apr 22, 2008 10:53 EDT
Posted by: G.BADARIVISHAL
Rating:
Rating:
Dear Sir,
I fully agree with your opinion.
xBase need have to die just because Microsoft has plans to drive the last nail to the coffin of FOXPRO.
Because, foxpro is one of the xBase languages and not the only xBase language.
I have been and is a Xbase programmer - dbase III plus - for the past 10 years. You may wonder what this almost 20 years old programming environment is doing in 2008.
Really we can write very useful, user friendly, economical and fast applications in xBase.
Leaving the big leagues, I mean to say, MNCs and would be MNCs we have a very large section of common populace which want a custom built application to cater to their needs. What they really want is trustworthy, costwise down to earth applications. The refuge is xBase which does not exploit the situation but gaurantees perfect solution.
If we, xBase programmers, really work to popularise xBase by taking it to grassroot level effectively xBase can definitely survive the onslaught from whatever non-xBase platform and can continue to make the lives of users as well as xBase programmers purposeful for a long to come.
G.BADARIVISHAL
MYSORE
SOUTH INDIA
22-04-2008
You do not have flash or javascript support.
Sat, Oct 18, 2008 5:13 EDT
"I just found this article looking for answers"
What more can be said than your reply. I totally agree.
Microsoft IS NOT XBASE and the issues are not desktop application anyways. I have been in the same situation with PHP and so on and I always went back to VFP code and database because SQL, . NET ... doesn't create any added value to my work besides showing off at the cafe using great expression.
I don't think anyone talks about small/medium business needs for there Intranet or simply allowing online orders, VFP is more than enough and the use of DATA exchange with this or that is simply a big joke, 99% is by extracting an excel file ! (NAVISION is doing exactly that Whooaoo big deal)
Xbase will move on, that is why I am not worried at all, and also knowing the product is supported until 2015 allows us to tell customers that there is no problems.
2015 !! What will happen until that date, will google by Microsoft, is LINUX going to get market shares, will ".net" still the right solution, in our field nobody has any clue on what's next.
Microsoft business model is dead, office is dying, Explorer is less used, Sqlserver is FREE in lite version, so they should be worried to loose the foxpro community, they completely forget that we are Windows based consumers, if anymone goes PHP why would you keep Microsoft as a workstation or server anyways ??!!
Jean-charles CLERC (France)
IT consultant for small/medium business since 1990.
Developper of online application using VFP only since 2000.
www.opuss.net
www.voicenter.eu
You do not have flash or javascript support.
Sat, Oct 18, 2008 5:17 EDT
"I just found this article looking for answers"
What more can be said than your reply. I totally agree.
Microsoft IS NOT XBASE and the issues are not desktop application anyways. I have been in the same situation with PHP and so on and I always went back to VFP code and database because SQL, . NET ... doesn't create any added value to my work besides showing off at the cafe using great expression.
I don't think anyone talks about small/medium business needs for there Intranet or simply allowing online orders, VFP is more than enough and the use of DATA exchange with this or that is simply a big joke, 99% is by extracting an excel file ! (NAVISION is doing exactly that Whooaoo big deal)
Xbase will move on, that is why I am not worried at all, and also knowing the product is supported until 2015 allows us to tell customers that there is no problems.
2015 !! What will happen until that date, will google by Microsoft, is LINUX going to get market shares, will ".net" still the right solution, in our field nobody has any clue on what's next.
Microsoft business model is dead, office is dying, Explorer is less used, Sqlserver is FREE in lite version, so they should be worried to loose the foxpro community, they completely forget that we are Windows based consumers, if anymone goes PHP why would you keep Microsoft as a workstation or server anyways ??!!
Jean-charles CLERC (France)
IT consultant for small/medium business since 1990.
Developper of online application using VFP only since 2000.
www.opuss.net
www.voicenter.eu
You do not have flash or javascript support.
Mon, Oct 20, 2008 7:41 EDT
Posted by: Quentin
Rating:
Rating:
Once again, another article by someone who believes the Microsoft marketing machine. The only reason why VFP "needs" to die is because Microsoft refuses to incorporate it into their long-term future developments program in favour of their .NET debacle. VFP was purchased by Microsoft for a number of reasons: (1). to backward engineer the cursor technology to make ADO recordsets a reality; (2). incorporate Rushmore optimisation, which fell on stony ground when the Microsoft developers realised it wasn't a "plug-in", but inextricably entwined in VFP's internal code; (3). the data-environment, which Microsoft implemented poorly in VB, necessating the "creation" of .NET; (4). the central DB-engine for SQL-Server.
As a result of Microsoft's cack-handed handling of VFP, jobs and roles in this programming skill literally dried up, and I ended up bankrupt, so please don't lecture me on the virtues of Microsoft and their heavy-brows in making the decision to ditch VFP. .NET mania swept Europe like the newest craze and VFP developers weren't the only to suffer as a result.
I've moved over to PHP, Linux, OpenOffice, HTML, PostgreSQL, and I'm a SQL expert thanks to VFP's mature SQL engine, and many application development languages wish they could boast that. The only Microsoft product I'll ever use from now on is WindowsXP. Open-source all the way, and I feel that the 1 Billion Euros levied by the EC and the Indian government's refusal to move away from Open Office XML architecture are well-deserved punitive measures against Microsoft.
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